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Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.06.15 21:27:00 - [1] Immediate stop to auditing and ALL services Due to CCP's utterly moronic attitude to those who want to help the community for free, I am forced to immediately shutdown everything I have made: - Running audits will be immediately and all aborted starting now. Fees will be refunded the next time I am so idiot to play this game again. - The upcoming RL trading course. Here is the list of open to everyone services that I will have to shutdown EvE Emergency Trust PLEX Charity initiative when RL disasters happen (featured on Fanfest 2011 videos, donated > $4000 to Japanese) Official EvE thread Hosted on Vahrokh.com official sub-site EvE Technical Analysis (finance) Official EvE thread Hosted on Vahrokh.com official sub-site EvE Public Audits Archive (Market Discussion investments) Hosted on Vahrokh.com official sub-site EvE Public Investmens Records (Market Discussion investments) Hosted on Vahrokh.com official sub-site EvE Charting Service Official EvE thread Hosted on Vahrokh.com official sub-site NEISIN free app Official EvE thread Hosted on Vahrokh.com official sub-site EvE Income Analyzer (trading / sales analysis graphs and statistics) Hosted on Vahrokh.com official sub-site Auditing \| Research \| 3rd Party \| Collateral Holding \| EvE RL Charity
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.06.15 21:46:00 - [2] Auditing \| Research \| 3rd Party \| Collateral Holding \| EvE RL Charity
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.06.15 22:04:00 - [3] Originally by: Hexxx Originally by: flakeys Originally by: Hexxx You do realize that what they posted is a proposal and not necessarily the final version, right? I wouldn't do anything super rash until the whole thing shakes out. Personal opinion of course. As most things these days are ideas/proposals it IS obvious what direction CCP is taking so i can't blaim VV for acting this way. After years of empty threads finally the time has come to post a thread called : 'Eve is dying' where people will take it serious this time Yes, obvious....obviously speculation on your part. But feel free to post your own personal flair on the on-going "CCP Conspiracy" narrative embraced by the more reactive elements of our great community. The reactive elements are those who end up interviewed by magazines and showcased at Fanfest. The others stay stuck in their "one day maybe take off" grand projects or look back at their previous grand projects. Auditing \| Research \| 3rd Party \| Collateral Holding \| EvE RL Charity
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.06.15 22:47:00 - [4] Originally by: Hexxx So again, yes, I think you're being way too reactive. Do you have a right to be **ed at CCP's fumble on the first proposal? Sure! But doing what you're doing now, you're giving up on it all before you even know what the end product is going to be. Damn it man, you're better than this. About 2 weeks ago the news interviewed one of the tens of thousands Tunisian immigrants who come overnight in my country on those fail cracking boats. He said: "we live bad in Tunis, I am going to return back but only after someone (else) has fixed our situation". I thought: "** poor, he is fleeing from his own responsibility, will complacently wait for some holy other guy to fix his own garbage and THEN will get back to reap all the benefits". How irresponsible and spineless!" And now, I am supposed to act like him? To let this manure be fixed by someone else and then sail over their results and reap the benefits? You said it: I am better than this. Auditing \| Research \| 3rd Party \| Collateral Holding \| EvE RL Charity
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.06.15 23:08:00 - [5] Originally by: Lauren Hellfury If you are serious about quitting then get in game one last time and pay people back. Don't Ji Sama yourself. I am not quitting the game (for now), unless they just give me the boot like they are apparently trying to do since a while. Auditing \| Research \| 3rd Party \| Collateral Holding \| EvE RL Charity
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.06.15 23:23:00 - [6] Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 15/06/2011 23:23:41 Quote: In here, you would at least try to stop CCP from following through. But you're not, you're just quitting Said by the one who quit with the investors money... Anyway there's a little difference between the factory workers barring their factory entrances and organizing protest marches and "quitting". I am doing the former in case you hadn't noticed yet. If / when CCP will pull their head out of where the sun does not shine I will happily restore everything. Auditing \| Research \| 3rd Party \| Collateral Holding \| EvE RL Charity
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.06.16 00:28:00 - [7] Quote: I think your overreacting a bit VV. As Hexxx points out its not finalized, and its not very likely that they will have rules that are moronic If no one moves a finger, the unfinalized manure will become steamy and steady manure. You got to have someone who puts their face to make things happen. This organized reaction has been started by the EvECommander developer and others have supported him. It's time to perform due diligence and act like the community of developers we (the participants) are. Quote: Now these walls are coming down, and all they ask is for a sort of Toll subscription, and the right to retain control. Right, if you lived in THE toll country, where everything you do since you have born has a toll and a bribe attached to it, then you'd have a sensible nerve when you see such ways being introduced in your favourite game. Furthermore these tolls come after the website has costed me half a year of work, after I finished the graphics, after I recorded the videos. And yet, I am meant to reatroactively pay? Because I have been such an idiot to support CCP in any way I knew? Heck, I even made the buttons EvE-inspired. Quote: For the 99$ I am sure you would be able to have services running that made you a lot more either isk or even real money.. This is an excuse and you know it. Did you know I had people insulting me on SCC Lounge when I dared to charge them 30M for a 14 hours long audit? And they are meant to shell RL money now? REALLY? Do you know how many people signed up to pay my market data feed service?? And handful. I could not even pay a fraction of the mere website cost with that. People are absurdly stingy, expecially when they feel they are being ripped off. And making payware what's been free for 8 years IS ripping off, however you color it. Auditing \| Research \| 3rd Party \| Collateral Holding \| EvE RL Charity
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.06.16 13:19:00 - [8] Originally by: Ray McCormack Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha The others stay stuck in their "one day maybe take off" grand projects or look back at their previous grand projects. Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Said by the one who quit with the investors money... Do you know how feeble it looks when you resort to irrelevant personal attacks? The simple truth here is you're having an infantile tantrum to try to prove a point, one that is quite easily made with measured, constructive feedback in a situation any sensible person can see will have a reasonable conclusion. Glad you suddenly became a scholar and a philosopher. Reading your asshattery replies for years about EBANK and AATP customers feedback gave me the wrong impression. Auditing \| Research \| 3rd Party \| Collateral Holding \| EvE RL Charity
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.06.16 14:09:00 - [9] Quote: Do you have any valid input to add on your decision to act like a little girl and hide all her toys from the other kids because daddy was mean to her? Show us on the doll where CCP touched you, sweetheart I joined the EvE developers initiative Guess what they are organizing? The same thing. We are all acting like little girls, so that you and everyone else in EvE may keep the right to use our developing efforts for free. Don't forget this. Also, this is Chribba "acting like a little girl" in the same thread. I suppose you could go teach some manners to him as well. Auditing \| Research \| 3rd Party \| Collateral Holding \| EvE RL Charity
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.06.16 14:31:00 - [10] Originally by: Ray McCormack Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Also, this is Chribba "acting like a little girl" in the same thread. Actually, that's just more of you being a little miss wet pants. This is the right link: Originally by: Chribba ok seriously, I've like Ctrl+A, backspace this post 5 times now, tbh I'm out of words. I would like to know how many 3rd party developer/sites are doing it for the **ing awesome income it generates?! Seriously, this if anything WILL kill development of sites and services. As a creator of sites/applications/services for New Eden since well over 6 years now, I can tell you that I have never once created something with the goal to make money off it, this whole thing about needing a license to make something for the community is just ing **ed! Just hearing this makes my interest/will for developing things crash. This is not about the $99, this is about how you want to charge me because I want to do something for the community out of my free will - does that sense? Do you feel I am stealing your IP, making massive amounts of money off your IP? Then tell me straight up, don't try to bind it into some fluffy clouds and call it "great news". Every IPO in Market Discussions will now require a license, since after all, it's donations. Corporations should get a license too, I mean having a corp tax of >0.0% could be seen as a donation to the corporation... And yeah, I guess me and everyone else with an EVE IP tattoo will need a license, I mean, some other geek may think it's awesome and want to buy me a beer... I'm just very sad to see this even being discussed, talk about a punch in the face. Don't get me wrong, I see your point of EVE IP, and yes I can agree that it may** need to be controlled to some extent, but this is not the way. Not by far. /c Auditing \| Research \| 3rd Party \| Collateral Holding \| EvE RL Charity
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.06.16 15:43:00 - [11] Originally by: Emma d'Acques gets a bucket of popcorn grabs a seat I'm starting to enjoy this discussion, too bad it's becoming more of a "See who can throw the most personal insults" contest... Maybe they could resort to a spitting contest like in Monkey Island. Wonder if anyone even recalls it. Auditing \| Research \| 3rd Party \| Collateral Holding \| EvE RL Charity
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.06.16 16:08:00 - [12] CCP Zulu has posted at last. It's some "give us time, we are swamped, we will iterate on this" response. Here's my feedback Auditing \| Research \| 3rd Party \| Collateral Holding \| EvE RL Charity
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.06.16 19:43:00 - [13] @Dretzle The most expensive service I provide are the searchable audits records and the EvE investments searchable records. When I perform an audit I indeed get ISK but then, instead of "just" posting the audit on the EvE forums, I also put a much visually appealing version on my website. How do you frame this? The audit and the related EvE forum report are ISK-ware, but the good looking version of the audit is freeware. But how in hell am I going to EVER make a CCP lawyer understand this? Auditing \| Research \| 3rd Party \| Collateral Holding \| EvE RL Charity
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.06.16 19:53:00 - [14] Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 16/06/2011 19:53:48 Quote: 2. If it's free (i.e. non-commercial) you have nothing to be worried about. What I get from you is that you're concerned because of accepting donations, which I've addressed above. Hopefully there's a middle ground that can be obtained, but my only point is that it is already against ToS. Don't act like something is getting taken away from you. Since I play EvE, every single website I go, I see a Shattered Crystal button or a Paypal Donate or Ads. CCP DEMANDS to inspect your website as well, therefore they apparently always forgot this TOS "detail". Till today that is. Have them sue all the thousands of EvE websites, it's going to do them so good! With the added juicy details they sue websites which had the CCP stamp of approval. Auditing \| Research \| 3rd Party \| Collateral Holding \| EvE RL Charity
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.06.16 20:07:00 - [15] Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 16/06/2011 20:11:00 Quote: There's a potential legal issue to licensing someone, so it's certainly understandable that they want due diligence in that validation.' That point was made mainly for those that think that CCP is only charging a fee because they want to nickel and dime us wherever they can get money, instead of realizing there's a real cost involved. Yet for 8 (eight) years - a time span longer than most MMOs whole duration - they were fine at checking your website for free. What did they do? They exactly checked it was conforming with their IP, not defamatory etc. Now, suddenly, they both require good cash to pay some 3rd world slave to draw barbie skirts and other cash to do the same checks they did before. Quote: Yeah, Eve is not Apple. Apple gives an SDK, support, etc. Why? The $99 doesn't pay for all of that. But that's beside the point. Also, a $2.99 app looks like a small thing, but when they sell millions of them, that's millions of dollars in their pocket. Yes, Apple makes lots of money from their App Store. And that's the WHOLE point. We cannot do business in EvE. There's just room to get break even developing a very generalistic (and thus bought by thousands) thing like that Capsuleer skills check app. That's it. Forget viability for the HUNDREDS of less known yet useful EvE niches, like i.e. an alchemy spreadsheet or an auditing app. Then, I can make $5k selling my Apple app and thus I can invest $100 in 3rd party software. In EvE I indeed need $100 to buy all the many auditing apps I need to use yet I would be a FOOL to believe I'd ever make $5k with audits. Quote: Now, instead of picking at a minute detail that was meant for illustration, reread my post and its intent. The intent is to prove that the victim is guilty of having provoked the raper. WE broke their TOS. WE dared to use their IP. WE got the gall to put a donate button to hope to cover part of our costs. WE assumed we could use their published API and data dumps. WE are guilty. No way. No effing way. Quote: Anyways, I've made my point in my big wall of text above. Perhaps it's my fault if it was not clear. Your point is clear. My point is clearer. We live, we are the market. Their rules suck. We do not accept them. So, it's written on the TOS? Cool, change the TOS to make it acceptable to benign free labor providers we are. If not, accept the sh!tstorm and that the counterparty (us) quit or dump our work. No compromise. All principle. Straight into hell. Auditing \| Research \| 3rd Party \| Collateral Holding \| EvE RL Charity
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.06.16 20:25:00 - [16] Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 16/06/2011 20:28:14 Quote: 1) No raping happening here. Don't for a minute have the gross audacity to think that this is tantamount to that horrible act against a person and against humanity. It's an example of a trend of a process of thought (even if the real thing is infinitely worse ofc). There's even a Wikipedia link describing it in detail, I CBA to find it. Quote: You always do have the option of maturity and trying to work with CCP to get what you think is a fair deal. You also have the option to go elsewhere. You are not and never were entitled due to the rights of humanity to what CCP has opened up to you and other developers. You're free to spend your money elsewhere Sure, I could hide the head under the sand and be just another spineless midget with no free will. Or, I (we actually) could do the hard work to try and make them open their eyes and make their deal acceptable. In the number of the immature filth there's also Chribba and most of the prominent apps and websites who joined the organized protest. We are not alone and - incredible to say - not powerless. ------------ Also, why don't you send your propositive feedback in the actual feedback thread? CCP reads there not here. Auditing \| Research \| 3rd Party \| Collateral Holding \| EvE RL Charity
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.06.16 20:31:00 - [17] I have my own idea of dignity. I am the kind who runs headbutting till death with a Dom Quixote idealistic and romantic view of everything, others use educate propositions. These are my limits, I apologize for having them. Auditing \| Research \| 3rd Party \| Collateral Holding \| EvE RL Charity
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.06.16 20:43:00 - [18] Originally by: Hexxx Check feedback thread for rare examples of actual constructive feedback and CCP responding in a professional way to said constructive feedback. I checked and it's about 3 patches to a blog, with few interspersed "excuse us we did not mean it". Things don't work like you (and even I) would prefer. Evolution (technically it's called "punctuated evolution) happens because of traumatic and violent events. These usually happen and lead to the break of a resistance. Yes, like in a market. Auditing \| Research \| 3rd Party \| Collateral Holding \| EvE RL Charity
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.06.16 21:10:00 - [19] Originally by: Rhivre Edited by: Rhivre on 16/06/2011 20:55:18 "So what weæll do is take a step back, harvest feedback from this thread, do an iteration pass on the contract and terms and give you an updated version before the end of summer. Until we have a license that meets our needs and your expectations we will not make any changes to our terms or enforcement thereof." So...perhaps a little calm is called for, and less comparing being charged for getting ad revenue to being assaulted. EDIT: If you really are only getting 0.26 Eur for your google ad clicks, then why have them? A domain name ad free costs what, 13 Eur a year? Do you believe I made the website for EvE? EvE is meant to be my "fun" part of it. The rest has yet to come and should bring in some more traffic. It seems I'll eventually have to dump EvE and leave all my other MMOs and go ahead. Because EvE is NOT bringing page views nor was meant to. It was meant to store my old videos, screen shots, audits, roleplayed corporation with nice pictures of roleplayed corp charters. If CCP are not fine with it, who am I to oppose. I'll eventually leave it out and bring the clicks to the other MMORPGs. It's not like I get paid by them either. At least they leave me in peace and WoW even lets me use their copyrighted music. Quote: A domain name ad free costs what, 13 Eur a year? I have 2 database servers, an application server, telnet access and other stuff I need for other things including showing to perspective customers IRL. It costed 100 euros plus 2 domains plus certs ($50 each). And hey, did I EVER whine about these costs? No, because none else before ripped me off like this. Auditing \| Research \| 3rd Party \| Collateral Holding \| EvE RL Charity
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.06.16 21:26:00 - [20] Originally by: Rhivre So you are getting what you wanted, a rethink of the idea, and still you act as if it is the first devblog release. So far you have compared yourself to a tunisian refugee, and someone who has been physically violated. A little perspective is called for here VV, and if you cannot see that, then I do not know what to say. They added to the original text, not put a better alternative in place, written docs are current till amendment or removal. Also, I am exposing what made me go out with the other developers, this does not mean I am still at the same phase. Sadly I have a passionate temper (hey I am Italian after all!) and don't know how I am meant to "reduce" it once it's not needed any more. Auditing \| Research \| 3rd Party \| Collateral Holding \| EvE RL Charity
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.06.16 21:47:00 - [21] Originally by: Hexxx Hi, maybe you should read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias You are almost there. Now, do this furter elaboration. Look at your past posts, expecially those where you stated what your aims in EvE were. You will find your answer. What you wanted to do is an end, while a tiny tiny tiny mediatic portion of it is what I am using. Auditing \| Research \| 3rd Party \| Collateral Holding \| EvE RL Charity
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.06.16 22:11:00 - [22] Hexxx, please re-read what you quoted. Think about what's said there. Then it'll be clear. Auditing \| Research \| 3rd Party \| Collateral Holding \| EvE RL Charity
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.06.17 09:05:00 - [23] Originally by: Krathos Morpheus First comes a question: Will you reopen the services after the weekend as the proposal establish? Yes. Unlike popular beliefs, this is not a knee jerk reaction but a concerted effort made with other developers. There are written terms anyone can read about what we do or will do. Originally by: Krathos Morpheus the "clarification" and "first draft" comments are a joke and it is clear from the wording that the thing was final. Yes, and what you see is a 3 times patched dev blog. I was here to read the original version, it was nerve-shattering compared to this one (that still sucks hard) and yet, no "it's a draft" label attached to it. Originally by: Krathos Morpheus if you have other reasons, sure, go ahead and share them with us, but not for something that might or not be. We have an official dedicated thread in the developers forum, it's where it's shared for everyone to read. Auditing \| Research \| 3rd Party \| Collateral Holding \| EvE RL Charity
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.06.17 09:29:00 - [24] Quote: Yep, I know. I was talking in case you were taking it down indefinitely, trying not to make assumptions until you answered the first question, that's why that paragraph was surrounded by "ifs" :). I also believe the link to that should be in the first post. I have made like 500 posts in 1 day (!!!) including on EvE News 24 and elsewhere. I am sure I missed a lot of details everywhere The announcement was based on the blog original text, which was basically "that's the New Order, deal with it, pawns". Therefore it was final. Since CCP backpedalled (for now), I will lift it till further news. --------------- Also, to everyone: For the love of what you have dearest, please support this thread so CCP will not kill MD metagaming! Auditing \| Research \| 3rd Party \| Collateral Holding \| EvE RL Charity
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.06.17 09:37:00 - [25] Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 17/06/2011 09:37:28 Originally by: Dasola Knowing ccp trackrecord of ignoring plaer feedback on things, i dont think VV is overreacting. HEs just showing everyone what will happen when ccp finalises this plan. Services start to disapear. PS. Did you notice that even ISK payments require you to get commercial lisense? So if youo make anytype of ingame servise and receive one isk for it, even as donation, you nee to buy lisense. :P I have spent every bit of myself to make the playerbase aware. Now it's your turn to report the MD feedback thread I linked above, bump it, anything, so that CCP get it before it's too late. We have to understand that those writing the license have no clue about how complex and rich MD metagaming can be, we must tell them before the license is final. Auditing \| Research \| 3rd Party \| Collateral Holding \| EvE RL Charity
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.06.20 07:21:00 - [26] Strike's over and CCP backpedalled, therefore the services are made available again till we get further licensing "previews". Auditing \| Research \| 3rd Party \| Collateral Holding \| EvE RL Charity
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2011.06.20 09:02:00 - [27] Originally by: Liberty Eternal Good to hear - are you planning to resume your trading course as well? Yes but at a lower priority. It's a grandiously massive amount of work and to make it EvE friendly I put EvE IP in the videos, I put EvE icons in the EvE specialized content and so on. I don't want to invest man weeks into something that risks being annihilated by one CCP blog in 1.5 months, therefore I am now partnering with a guy who is actually paying me to do his website. I will keep writing course content in the mean time, but it won't be as much priority and I will tone the CCP content to the minimum possible so I have less to delete later. Sorry if this is disappointing, I got the club in my face and now I have to deal with it to protect myself from some CCP greedy lawyers. Auditing \| Research \| 3rd Party \| Collateral Holding \| EvE RL Charity

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